Intimacy After Infidelity with Amanda Louder | Ep #95

Andrea:

I’m Andrea Giles, and you’re listening to the Heal from Infidelity podcast,
episode number 95, Intimacy After Infidelity with Amanda Louder.

Andrea:

Hello and welcome to the Heal from Infidelity podcast where courageous
women learn not only to heal from their spouse’s betrayal, but to become
the boldest, truest, most decisive and confident versions of themselves
ever. If you know there’s more freedom than the life you’re currently
living, but don’t quite know how to get there, you are in the right place.

Andrea:

Stick around to learn how to create a life that will knock your own socks
off. Is it possible? It is, and I’m here to show you how. I’m your host,
Andrea Giles. Are you ready? Let’s dive in.

Andrea:

Hi, everybody. Welcome to episode number 95. It’s pretty fun to be creeping
up to episode number 100. So fun. It’s been a joy to watch this podcast
grow, to meet with many of you, to hear from many of you. I love it. Thank
you for being here. So today’s guest is Amanda Louder, who is a coach that
deals with sexuality.

Andrea:

She saw a need and saw that people’s feelings around their own sexuality,
some of the things that they’ve been taught, et cetera, et cetera, were
getting in the way of being able to enjoy fully this part of their lives.
And this certainly is a piece that comes up around infidelity.

Andrea:

So I had Amanda on, we had an amazing conversation all about intimacy,
particularly sexual intimacy after infidelity and what that looks like,
some of the things that come up, some of the things that are difficult, and
I hope that you find it useful.

Andrea:

Amanda is amazing. And I personally have learned a lot from her. So I hope
that you enjoy her and enjoy this conversation. Before I turn it over to
that conversation, I want to remind you that my doors are open right now to
my next group [inaudible 00:02:13] group.

Andrea:

They’re open now. We start on August 16th. Come on in. If this is something
that you’ve been thinking about and if it’s something that you have been
waiting for, don’t talk yourself out of it.

Andrea:

If you know that your time is now and that you’re ready to move forward,
ready to have the tools that you need to move forward, ready to have the
support of other women and to have my coaching and my skills and all the
things that you’ll learn in there, come talk to me. You can find links to
schedule a call with me on my Instagram.

Andrea:

You can find it in the show notes from this today. You’ll find it on my
website. Lots of different places where you can find it. Okay? But the
easiest is going to be in the show notes that are linked to this episode.
All right, without further ado, turning the time over to the conversation
with me and Amanda Louder. Enjoy.

Andrea:

Hi, everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. Today, I have a very special
guest. We have been talking for a long time about doing this episode and
today’s the day. I’m super excited to have Amanda Louder on the podcast.
She is a sex coach. Yes. Is that what you call yourself, Amanda?

Amanda:

Yes.

Andrea:

Okay. Sex coach. And I have been following Amanda myself for quite a while
and have learned a ton, learned a ton from her, from her podcast, from her
website. She has great resources, lots of good information.

Andrea:

And I wanted to bring her on today to talk with you a little bit about sex
and intimacy as it relates to infidelity. And I have some specific things
that I want to ask her that I’m super excited to hear what she has to say.
But first of all, Amanda, can you please tell us all about yourself, how
you came to be a sex coach, a little bit about your life?

Amanda:

Yeah.

Andrea:

Take it away.

Amanda:

Okay. Well, thanks so much for having me on, Andrea. I’m so happy to be
here.

Andrea:

Of course.

Amanda:

And be able to share with your audience. So I was married to my first
husband for 13 and a half years, and it was really rough almost the entire
time. There was some, a lot of emotional abuse and other abuses that
happened in our marriage and I hated sex.

Amanda:

I pretty much hated sex almost the entire time. I didn’t understand my
body. I didn’t understand how to have good sex. He seemed to be enjoying
things, but really it was just all about him and doing it whenever he
wanted or doing it, trying to put him off for as long as I could and then
doing it just to get him off my back.

Amanda:

But I, after about 12 years of marriage, I was kind of desperate. Because
I’m a very religious person and I consider God to be my partner in my
marriage and in my life. And so I was praying all the time, trying to
figure out what I needed to do to go forward in my marriage.

Amanda:

And I had been praying about divorcing him pretty strongly from about year
five on. At that point, things had gotten bad enough that I was, “I don’t
know that I’d want to keep doing this.” And my answer was always now is not
the time and you have more work to do.

Amanda:

And I was, “What? Okay, tell me what work I need to do, because I’m going
to do all the work so that I can get out of this marriage.” And so at about
year 12, so I’ve been praying about this for seven years at that point, I
had the idea that I needed to work on my sexuality. Because I figured,
maybe if the sex got better, then our marriage would get better.

Amanda:

And so that was really hard for me because I carried a lot of shame about
my sexuality. Growing up in a very conservative religious home and the
messages that we receive, I received in my family about sex and culture at
large, I had a lot of shame about my sexuality.

Amanda:

And so having to get over that shame first was really difficult. And then
taking the time to really understand my body and explore and figure out
what felt good for me. And so after 12 years, I finally had my first
orgasm. I had bought a bunch of toys and I was, “Oh, okay. I could get on
board with this. This actually is good.” So the sex got better, the
marriage was still crap.

Andrea:

So no orgasm for 12 years?

Amanda:

Right.

Andrea:

Okay. Gotcha.

Amanda:

Yeah.

Andrea:

Okay.

Amanda:

I didn’t understand my body, didn’t understand I had a clitoris.

Andrea:

Yep.

Amanda:

Didn’t understand any of that. So had to.

Andrea:

Okay.

Amanda:

Do all that. So finally had orgasm, sex got better. The marriage was still
bad. And after about, it was almost 13 years, my answer from God changed.
And he said, “Now is the time. You’ve done your work.”

Andrea:

Okay.

Amanda:

And so I started putting things into place to get divorced and was
divorced. My answer changed in the spring and then took me some time to
figure things out and make sure I knew my rights. And then I went through
with my divorce in the fall of 2011.

Andrea:

Okay.

Amanda:

After 13 and a half years of marriage. And so I met my second husband, my
now husband, there’s only going to be two at just six weeks after my
divorce was final. And we fell in love immediately and knew we wanted to
get married. I mean, really within 24 hours of meeting each other. It was.

Andrea:

Wow.

Amanda:

Really fast. And what’s so interesting is those eight and a half years that
I was married to my, or that I was praying about divorcing my first husband
were the exact eight years that he was married to his first wife.

Andrea:

Wow.

Amanda:

And when they separated, that’s when my answer changed.

Andrea:

Wow.

Amanda:

So it was very much.

Andrea:

That’s amazing.

Amanda:

In God’s timing. And so he and I got married and we had discussed sex
before we got married and knew what we were in for and what we wanted. And
both of us wanted a really great sexual relationship. And so we’ve both
worked on that to have that. So we have a really, we just celebrated our
ten year anniversary.

Andrea:

Awesome.

Amanda:

And we have had a beautiful and wonderful marriage and a great sexual
relationship. So fast forward a little bit, I was considering going back to
school to become a therapist, but with, I wanted to help women who had been
through abuse and divorce and stuff like I had.

Amanda:

And people were calling me all the time for divorce advice. And so I
thought that was kind of the natural path to do that. But looking into it,
it was going to take me eight years full time to do everything.

Andrea:

Yep. Yeah.

Amanda:

And at that point, we had a blended family of five kids and I was, “There’s
no way. There’s no way I could do this.” It would take me, because I would
not be able to go full time and so it would take me even longer.

Amanda:

And then a friend introduced me to life coaching and I immediately knew
that that was what I needed to do. So I started my coaching business
helping women who were struggling in their marriage and contemplating
divorce. I got certified as a life coach in the same school you did.

Amanda:

And I realized after a while that most of these women were having problems
with sex. And because it had been such an area that I had done so much work
on, on myself, I had a lot of knowledge. And I ended up going on a girls
trip with a bunch of other coaches and we rented a house and we’re sitting
around and sex came up like it often does when we go on these girls trips.

Amanda:

And by the end of the weekend, they were like, “Amanda, you have to change
your niche to sex because we have learned more from you in this weekend
than we have in 15 to 20 years of marriage.”

Andrea:

Wow.

Amanda:

And that was again, really scary because how could I talk about sex so
openly. Well, I grew up in a home where we did not talk about sex. And so
talking about it very publicly was very scary. But the more I thought about
it, the more I prayed about it, it felt like truth to me.

Amanda:

It felt like I was meant to do and so what I was meant to do. And so I
changed things and my business exploded. And I’ve had a tremendous success
and I am so grateful for the opportunity to help so many women and
marriages in this way, because it is truly life changing work.

Andrea:

Amazing. Amazing. I will say, you’ve helped me because.

Amanda:

Good.

Andrea:

Really, just in listening to your podcast and all the resources and things
I’m like, “Hmm. Didn’t know that. Didn’t know that.” It’s just.

Amanda:

Yeah.

Andrea:

I will go show my husband thinks, check this out, look at this.

Amanda:

Good, good, good.

Andrea:

So it’s good stuff. It’s good stuff. Okay. So as you know, my clientele are
working through infidelity.

Amanda:

Yeah.

Andrea:

And there’s been a breach of trust, often is around sexual things, right?

Amanda:

Mm-hmm.

Andrea:

Not always, often it is.

Amanda:

Yep.

Andrea:

And something that I hear a lot from clients is that they feel like they
were just not sexually doing it for their spouses, and so they blame
themselves for their spouse’s actions. What do you think about that? Tell
me what you think?

Amanda:

Well, I think there’s always room for improvement, but anyone else’s
choices are never our fault. They always have the agency to choose. And a
lot of times sex is the cause of infidelity.

Amanda:

But there’s always choice an agency. And your spouse who was unfaithful in
that way, chose that. And he could have made different choices or she could
have made different choices. So I think there’s always work to be done, but
I don’t necessarily think you should blame yourself.

Andrea:

Thank you. So for, again, a lot of my clients, a lot of them grew up in
homes that were very conservative, very, “We don’t talk about it. We
don’t.” Yeah.

Amanda:

Yeah.

Andrea:

“We don’t discuss it.” And so it, for the most part, they came into this
place just by the way that they were raised, the language that they were
used to hearing and not really feeling like they had permission to explore
it. And so they came by it naturally. Right?

Amanda:

Yeah. Absolutely.

Andrea:

A feeling of embarrassment if they really lean into the things that they
want, that kind of thing.

Amanda:

Yep.

Andrea:

So just in general, tell me how you have seen that kind of thinking affect
marriages for both men and women.

Amanda:

Yeah. It wreaks havoc on marriages. I think it’s traumatizing. I mean, we
have different kinds of trauma, the big T trauma and little T trauma. I
think it’s more on the little T trauma side most of the time.

Amanda:

But it is very traumatizing to be told something that is so innate and
inherent inside all of us is bad or wrong or makes you unworthy or just
different things like that.

Amanda:

So that, when we have a disconnect inside of us, that this is like I’m
feeling these things, I’m thinking these things and they’re wrong, which
makes me wrong, which makes me bad. Or we get messages from in our familial
situations, in our religious situations, just cultural at large that men
are the sexual ones.

Andrea:

Yeah.

Amanda:

And women are just there to accommodate, which is totally not true. Women
are actually more sexual in many ways than men. We’re just are not given
the permission. And sex has often been used by patriarchy to control women
and exert power over women. So there’s so much baggage that comes with it.

Amanda:

And so when you, or maybe you were told sex is good, but you have to wait
until you get married so bad, bad, bad, bad. Okay, good. And we just don’t
make that shift. It takes a lot of work to change that mindset. And so
there’s so much that plays into it.

Amanda:

So the fact that so many women don’t like sex or they do it just to be
accommodating for their spouse or it’s just something they have to check
off their list and they don’t understand how it is for them and how it can
be so life giving for them and for their marriage. Of course, they have
issues. That is so common and so normal. And it’s not something that we
talk about.

Amanda:

And so they feel very isolated and alone and broken. And so that is one of
my goals is to help people normalize all of this and to know that you are
not broken, the system is broken, the way we talk about things is broken,
but you are not broken. And the more that we can talk about it, the better
off that we’re all going to be.

Amanda:

I always tell people, because people come and I don’t want to talk about
sex in front of other people. Because I’ve done one on one coaching, I’ve
also done group coaching like you’re enjoying, but now I have a membership
because I couldn’t help as many people in just even group coaching as
needed help.

Amanda:

And so now I have this membership and they’re, “But I don’t want to talk
about sex in front of other people.” And what I tell people is the same
thing that’s holding you back from talking about it is the same thing
that’s keeping you from actually having good sex. It’s shame, and we have
to get over the sexual shame.

Andrea:

Okay. So first of all, thank you. So good. I just, as you were talking, I
was remembering specifically in my first marriage, how weird it was to,
just like you said, don’t do it, stop, stop, stop. Don’t do it. And then
go.

Amanda:

Yep.

Andrea:

Go. And I remember I was very careful and strict with myself and had all
the things. And I remember being, “Wait a minute, what?” You know?

Amanda:

Yeah.

Andrea:

And just feeling so weird. It took a long time to even feel like I wasn’t
doing something wrong.

Amanda:

Yeah. Yeah.

Andrea:

Because I had been taught for so long that I was.

Amanda:

Right. And there’s some women who are, “Oh yeah, I like sex. Sex feels
good. I’m orgasming, but I shouldn’t like it too much.”

Andrea:

Yes.

Amanda:

“I shouldn’t want it. I shouldn’t crave it.” So they shove it all down. So
we get a whole mixture of different things just because of the messages
that we received.

Andrea:

Yeah. Yes. So talk about shame. Let’s circle back to that. It’s interesting
because the very last episode that I recorded was about shame. And so how
does shame show up in sexual things with marriages personally?

Amanda:

Yeah. I mean, it shows up in so many ways. It shows up in no desire.

Andrea:

Okay.

Amanda:

It shows up in no orgasms.

Andrea:

Yeah.

Amanda:

It shows up in a resistance to even thoughts and feelings. We have thoughts
and feelings that are supposed to be there, but when you’ve been told your
whole life that they’re wrong and to control your thoughts and we’re so…
A lot of times, especially in conservative religions, we’ve been giving
these metaphors of if you think these things, you’re going to go down the
slippery slope and that’s going to lead you to hell.

Amanda:

And a lot of times we interpret that like, “Well, if my husband or my
spouse is that way, then they’re going to lead not only themselves, but
take me down with them. So I have to control things. I have to be the
gatekeeper.”

Andrea:

Yes.

Amanda:

To sex so that we don’t, both don’t go to hell because we’re sexual beings.
And we, I mean, the what I believe is sex is sacred and it’s beautiful and
should be shared between two people who if not, depending on your religion,
in mine, unless you’re married, but in some, between two people who love
each other.

Amanda:

And outside of that, it can be harmful. But there’s kind of a scale where
we go to indulgent sexuality, where we’re using sex outside of the bounds
that have been set or indulging it [inaudible 00:19:10] being promiscuous,
we’re being unfaithful to our spouse or… That can kind of lead into the
indulgent part of sexuality.

Andrea:

Yeah.

Amanda:

The other end of the spectrum is repression. And that’s where most of us
go, because we don’t want to go to the indulgent part.

Andrea:

Yeah.

Amanda:

But what we actually need is a healthy middle ground where we are sexual.
We realize that we were created to be sexual beings. That’s inherent in us.
But how do we want to use that within our value system, that’s within our
integrity where we’re not being indulgent, but we’re also not repressing.

Amanda:

And so that shame often comes from both ends of the spectrum where we’re
either being indulgent in it, or we are completely repressing it and
thinking we are somehow unworthy or bad or wrong. And instead of, “It is
wrong,” it becomes, “I am wrong.”

Andrea:

Okay. I love that. Thank you. So with infidelity, first of all, a lot of my
clients blame themselves for not being whatever, attractive enough, sexual
enough, enticing enough.

Amanda:

Yeah.

Andrea:

Things like that. And so that’s an issue. Another issue that I see a lot is
many of my clients want to stay and struggle in trying to create a sexual
relationship with their spouse, sexual intimacy with their spouse,
partially from intrusive thoughts that come up around their partner, things
about their partner. And then also almost like a guilt for wanting to be
close to their spouse, even though their spouse betrayed their trust.

Amanda:

Yeah.

Andrea:

And so I’d love to hear from you what you would say to my clients about
these things, stepping into it, where you are honoring your yourself, but
also honoring what you want for your relationship, things like that. Go
ahead.

Amanda:

Yeah. So I mean, one of the biggest things for sex is safety and freedom.
Those are two of the biggest things that all of us need to have in order to
experience great sex. And often after infidelity, that safety is missing.
And so we’re often looking outside of ourselves to create that safety.

Amanda:

We’re looking at, well, as long as he or she, my spouse isn’t being
unfaithful anymore, then I can feel safe. Or as long as they’re not doing
these things, then I can feel safe. And really that, pointing that outside
of yourself is never going to help you feel safe.

Amanda:

And so it always has to come from within you. Can I feel safe because I
know that I’m going to make the best decision for me in this moment, no
matter what that is? That’s how I feel safe.

Amanda:

Whether he’s being unfaithful or not, or making decisions or not, it comes
down to me and for me making the decision and that’s how I can feel safe is
because it’s within my control. And then the freedom to be able to express
yourself.

Amanda:

And if you don’t have that freedom to make the choice to have sex, if you
don’t have the freedom to express yourself in the way you want, then that
can also inhibit things. The intrusive thoughts are actually really normal.
Just normalize that. Those things are going to, those will pop up. What do
you want to do with it?

Amanda:

That would be my question is when that pops into your head, what do you
want to do with that thought? Do you want to put energy and power behind
that thought? Do you want to indulge in that thought and keep thinking it
over and over and over? Or do you want to just notice that your brain is
offering you that thought and decide that it’s not helpful for you?

Andrea:

Yeah.

Amanda:

I’m sure you probably get a little bit of this, a lot, I get a lot of women
in my program whose husbands have had issues with pornography.

Andrea:

Yeah.

Amanda:

Unwanted pornography use. If you don’t believe that pornography’s a
problem, then it’s probably not a problem. Right?

Andrea:

Yeah. Right.

Amanda:

But if you believe it’s a problem and it’s happening, then it can feel very
betraying for that to happen.

Andrea:

Yeah.

Amanda:

And a lot of times what will pop into these women’s heads, is that what
their husband wants to do or what’s happening is what they’ve seen in
pornography. I would imagine if your spouse has had an affair that maybe
what’s happening, you’re thinking, “Well, did he do this with her? What did
he do with her?”

Amanda:

Right? But just notice that that’s happening, but all of the things existed
before pornography and before the affair. What do you want to stay present
in that situation with your spouse and make it a good experience or do you
want to, I think, bring other people or other things into that situation?

Amanda:

Which usually isn’t helpful when it can just be the two of you. So just
noticing that my brain keeps offering me these things, what do I want to do
with them? What power do I want to give it or not? I think that’s really
helpful.

Andrea:

Yes. Thank you.

Amanda:

The guilt about having sex with your spouse that has been unfaithful, you
always have a choice. And consent is huge. So if it’s not an enthusiastic
yes from you, don’t do it. Don’t do it. But if this is something that you
really want for yourself, whether you think it will be healing and
connecting, or maybe it’s just the thought of losing your spouse to someone
and you want to stay connected, as long as you’re making that conscious
choice, it’s okay.

Amanda:

You can choose to have sex or you can choose not to have sex. But when you
have, you have to understand that that’s your choice and that’s what’s
going to help you create that safety in yourself. And if you choose to do
it, if it’s made out of a conscious choice, if it’s not made out of, “Well,
I have to give them more sex to keep them with me,” or.

Andrea:

Yes.

Amanda:

Doing that, then you’re probably doing it for the right reasons and there
doesn’t need to be any guilt. I don’t think there needs to be guilt, even
if you’re doing it for the wrong reasons.

Andrea:

Yeah. Yeah.

Amanda:

But I think it can happen more easily if you’re doing it for the wrong
reasons.

Andrea:

Yep. Thank you. Something that I say all the time on my podcast is how
infidelity can be a crisis in your marriage, crisis personally, that can be
a springboard to immense personal growth.

Amanda:

Absolutely.

Andrea:

That it can spring you into going, “I have to look at these things, I
have…” That the options are to you can blame all day long and the jerk,
he did this, he did that. And we can do that, but we end up not learning
anything from it ourselves and not being able to really see ourselves in
the context of our marriages.

Andrea:

And I think that this piece of sexuality is there’s a lot of maturity. As
you were talking about the options right after infidelity that you can, you
can still have that desire, you can still want the closeness and you can
still not be particularly thrilled with them. Right?

Amanda:

Totally.

Andrea:

You can still not completely trust them and still trust yourself enough to
have sex. You can, that safety piece is so huge.

Amanda:

Yep.

Andrea:

And I think that, as you’re talking, I was thinking about the immense
maturity that it takes, the immense amount of maturity and development to
go from a space of kind of the way that we are taught about things of only
sex, yes. But only as a means for whatever, children or to please your
spouse or whatever those narratives are. We each have our own.

Amanda:

Yeah.

Andrea:

Right?

Amanda:

Right.

Andrea:

To really a form, like you said, of self-expression and even a mode of
healing.

Amanda:

Absolutely.

Andrea:

And.

Amanda:

Absolutely.

Andrea:

Yeah. And it can feel, there’s great vulnerability there, right? To open up
to that and to allow yourself to heal in that way. Would you talk a little
bit about how sexuality sex can be healing?

Amanda:

Yeah. Sex is so vulnerable and sex exposes the deepest parts of us if we
let it. It can also be very surface level and not. So this is where we talk
more about intimacy being known, fully known in all aspects and fully
knowing your partner as well.

Amanda:

When sex can be that, it can be very healing and intimate. Not to be TMI,
but I remember a time where my husband and I have been going through some
really big struggles with some of our kids. And some of the times that we
have when we are making love and being intimate with each other are some of
the most healing parts of that because we feel loved and connected.

Amanda:

And all of the hurt that we feel outside of the bedroom is healed within
because of that love that we have for each other. And when we can just be
completely open and vulnerable with each other and say everything that
needs to be said with no judgment and just complete acceptance of each
other, that is so healing, that is the deepest forms of love.

Amanda:

And when there is infidelity, there’s so much hurt and heartache, but most
of the time, the reason infidelity comes. And I know you know this, and I
know your audience has probably heard this, but because someone feels
broken or the relationship feels broken.

Amanda:

And when you can start to see with truth, the parts that are broken and
work to heal those together, and that then a lot of that healing can come
through sex because you are being completely open and vulnerable and
letting the other person see all of you and you seeing every part of them
and choosing to accept and love them.

Andrea:

Yep. Which is amazing and powerful and such a gift. Right?

Amanda:

Yeah. Yeah.

Andrea:

It’s like a profound gift.

Amanda:

Yep.

Andrea:

Yes. So what about my clients who either ended up getting divorced or their
spouses left them sometimes for the other woman.

Amanda:

Yeah.

Andrea:

And they are left feeling the hurt that comes from that and sexually
unfulfilled. What would you.

Amanda:

Yeah.

Andrea:

What would you say to them? Can they still develop their sexuality?

Amanda:

Yeah. Yeah. So I have a friend who is also a coach that recently went
through a divorce and she was like, “Oh, we didn’t have any problems with
sex within our marriage. And so I’m good.” And I’m, “But you still have a
relationship with your own sexuality, whether you’re married or not.

Amanda:

So whether your, before you’re married or while you’re married or after
marriage or divorced or whatever, your sexuality is yours, it is not
legitimized in a marriage and you have a relationship with it no matter
where you are in your life.

Amanda:

And your relationship with your sexuality is how you think about it and how
you think about yourself with that as part of you. And that can be
nourished and strengthened and developed even when you’re on your own. And
I would say how you do that, you just have to look inside and decide what’s
within your value system.

Andrea:

Can you tell me more about that? Continue.

Amanda:

Are we going to go into masturbation.

Andrea:

Continue, continue.

Amanda:

We were given these thoughts and feelings for a reason. And I think
masturbation can be a wonderful way to love yourself and to develop your
own sexuality when you’re not in a relationship or even when you are in a
relationship and whether there’s different desire levels to help manage
discrepancies, to help strengthen your relationship with yourself so that
you can more fully.

Andrea:

Yep.

Amanda:

Share that with your spouse. So within my program, we work on what I call
pleasure practices, which is learning to understand your body and how you
experience pleasure on your own, creating safety and softness in your body
so that you can share that with someone else.

Amanda:

So I liken it to, we’re big fans of basketball at our house and my husband
years ago sent me this video of Steph Curry. And he would stay after
practice and just shoot three pointers. If I remember correctly, it was he
had to make 33 pointers in a row before he would leave.

Andrea:

Wow.

Amanda:

And so he was training his body and his muscles to respond in any situation
so that he could just make the shot no matter what. And I liken these
pleasure practices to that. We are training our body to show up in any
situation so that we can create safety in our body, pleasure in our body
and connection.

Andrea:

I love it.

Amanda:

And so I think you could do that whether you’re with a partner or not.

Andrea:

Thank you. That’s so good. So good. Thank you. We are just about out of
time. I want to ask you if you, I know that you also, we have some
crossover in some of the people that we work with. I know that you also
have had people that have experienced infidelity, different breaches of
trust.

Amanda:

Sure.

Andrea:

What’s your best advice that you want to leave my listeners with about
using sex as a tool to heal, to actually heal.

Amanda:

I think so much of it is healing within your own body so that you are
capable of sharing it with someone else, whether they’ve been unfaithful or
not. So when you can create that healing and that safety within you and
develop yourself, then you’re going to be able to heal and create safety
within that relationship as well. So it all starts with you.

Andrea:

Yep. It’s an inside job.

Amanda:

Totally.

Andrea:

It’s an inside job. And I, yeah, I love that. I think that we are so
conditioned in every way to think of things as outside of us and as they
pertain to us, right? From the outside in.

Amanda:

Yep.

Andrea:

And just as everything else that my listeners hear me talk about week after
week, it’s all an inside job. It has to come from inside and your sexuality
is yours as well.

Amanda:

Yep.

Andrea:

And I think that there’s just so much power in growing that piece of you,
that very personal piece. And I want to one more question for you. As you
have developed your own sexuality, you talked about that time in your first
marriage when you decided that that was something that needed to be
developed.

Amanda:

Yeah.

Andrea:

What has changed for you personally? I know you are married to somebody
else, but you.

Amanda:

Yeah.

Andrea:

Personally, what has changed for you because you had the courage to develop
that part of yourself?

Amanda:

Well, I always say when the sex gets better, everything gets better.

Andrea:

Yeah.

Amanda:

So we have, all of us were born to have this energy, this [Aros 00:36:02]
energy, which a lot of time we equate it with eroticism and sex. But really
Aros energy is just life giving energy. It’s where creativity comes from,
it’s where we just have a zest for life. And so many of us spend so much
time repressing our sexuality, that it takes a tremendous amount of energy
to do that because it’s innate within us.

Amanda:

So when we can open up that space for our sexuality to exist and flourish,
that Aros energy comes back and we have more energy for everything in our
life, everything that you want. And I see women who are trying to get that
back, that they feel very unfulfilled and stagnant and they just don’t know
what to do with their life.

Amanda:

And so they have another baby or they try to do a hobby or a side gig or
start a business or they go train for a marathon or something like that.
What they’re searching for is that Aros energy again.

Amanda:

And they might get glimpses of it with those things. And if you ask them,
all, most of them would hate, “Oh no, it’s not about sex.” I’m, “Oh, but
it’s.” When you can develop that, I mean, you’ll have the energy for the
marathon, you’ll have the energy of business, you’ll have the energy for
more children, but you have so much more.

Andrea:

I love that.

Amanda:

Because it’s about what you were made for.

Andrea:

So good.

Amanda:

And it’s inside of you. So when the sex gets better, everything gets
better.

Andrea:

I love that. So like you said at the beginning, something about it being
life giving and that.

Amanda:

Yes.

Andrea:

I love your explanation there at the end of that it is the energizer to
light up all the other areas of your life.

Amanda:

It really does.

Andrea:

Perfect. Well, thank you so much. How can my listeners find you and learn
more from you?

Amanda:

Yeah, so.

Andrea:

I know they will want to. I know they’re going to be looking for you.

Amanda:

So my podcast is called Sex For Saints. It’s for conservative Christian
women. Although it’s, I have many people, I have men, I have people who are
not conservative and not Christian [inaudible 00:38:24]

Andrea:

Yes.

Amanda:

So.

Andrea:

Yeah.

Amanda:

But that’s just kind of my background and where I come from. My website is
Amandalouder.com. Louder is L-O-U-D-E-R. I’m loud. It’s really easy to
remember.

Andrea:

I love it.

Amanda:

And my social media, Instagram and Facebook is Amanda Louder Coaching.

Andrea:

Okay, perfect. And all of those things will be linked in my show notes. All
right. Well, thank you so much, Amanda, for being here. And I know that my
people will love hearing from you and learning from you. So thank you for
your time.

Amanda:

Thank you so much for having me, Andrea.

Andrea:

Absolutely. Thank you for listening to the Heal from Infidelity podcast. If
you would like to be kept in the know about upcoming free classes, new
podcast episodes, and other ways of working with me, go subscribe to my
weekly email. You can subscribe at Andreagiles.com/lies-about-infidelity/.
Again, it’s Andreagiles.com/lies-about-infidelity/. I will see you next
time.