I’m Andrea Giles and you’re listening to the Heal from Infidelity podcast,
episode number 190, Manipulation or Influence – How to Tell the Difference
After Infidelity.

Hello and welcome to the Heal from Infidelity podcast where courageous
women learn not only to heal from their spouse’s betrayal, but to become
the boldest, truest, most decisive and confident versions of themselves
ever. If you know there’s more for you than the life you’re currently living
but don’t quite know how to get there, you are in the right place. Stick
around to learn how to create a life that will knock your own socks off. Is
it possible? It is, and I’m here to show you how I’m your host, Andrea
Giles. Are you ready? Let’s dive in.

(00:51):

Alright. Welcome, welcome, welcome back to another episode of Heal from
Infidelity. I am not going to waste any time today. I’m going to jump right
in. Jump, jump, jump. Here we go. Okay. I decided to record an episode for
you today about the difference between manipulation and influence and how
to lead from a place of strength and influence after infidelity. How to
know if you are being manipulated, and we could talk for many, many, many,
many episodes about this, but we’re going to touch on it today. Alright,
why did I decide to do this episode? I decided to do this episode because
after infidelity, sometimes people falsely think that if somebody stops
cheating or stops fooling around or whatever it may be, that they can just
fix the marriage and everything will be okay, and the person who was
unfaithful can get frustrated with the speed.

(01:49):

They can say, ah, we’ve been doing this for this long. Now why do you keep
bringing it up? They can say, look, I did what you said. I cut off contact,
I did this, I did that. And it can get very confusing. It can get
confusing, and sometimes both parties involved are missing the mark. Often
and in the context of this podcast episode, often what happens is the
symptom, which was whatever form of infidelity arises is divulged, is found
out, whatever it may be, and without looking at what caused the symptom in
the first place, we are totally missing the mark. And sometimes what I see
with my clients is that they are still living in patterns of manipulation,
in patterns of very sneaky types of abuse, very sneaky types of control,
either living with it from their partners or engaging in it themselves
sometimes, and until we can really understand what this looks like, we
often do what we do.

(02:57):

We often keep doing it. My intention here is to help shine a light on all
of this, to shine a light on seeing the deeper patterns, like looking at
some of these patterns here because until we really slow things down and
take a bigger view of the whole picture of all the parts involved, the
patterns often repeat themselves again and again and again. Okay, not
necessarily that they cheat again, not necessarily that, but sometimes these
patterns show up in other ways. If there’s some kind of manipulation that
was happening before the infidelity and it’s not really addressed and we’re
not seeing it, we often just continue doing it because we don’t know any
different because we haven’t learned how to do something different or
because we don’t recognize that we’re doing it or that we like that control
and we’re afraid to let it go.

(03:53):

So I’ve been thinking about this after talking to different clients and
different calls and recognizing how sometimes they are trying to keep their
eye on if the behavior is stopped and missing the deeper stuff of, okay,
what’s underneath that and what are the relational patterns and where is
there maybe manipulation happening here one way or another to try to get
some kind of outcome and let’s just shine a light. Okay. Alright, so you
are going to learn today the difference between manipulation and influence
and how both show up in relationships touched by infidelity and how to
shift this into your own courageous leadership, into your own courageous
moves that are going to drive things forward and disengage with some of
these patterns. Okay? Alright, so first let’s define what’s the difference
between manipulation and influence? Manipulation and influence. You’re both
kind of trying to determine how something goes, right, but manipulation
comes from a place of fear, either a fear of loss, a fear of rejection,
discomfort, lack, something that you don’t want to face, something that
you’re afraid of.

(05:09):

And so if I can just control how this goes, then I don’t have to feel that
way. Okay? Manipulation is self-serving. It’s very agenda driven. It’s
about getting something, extracting something, compliance, approval,
certainty. There’s something that we are trying to extract by manipulating
the situation. In the case of parent, sometimes our parents can be quite
manipulative in trying to get us to behave in certain ways or we can be
with our own where we’re going to say that it would mean so much to me if
you would do this thing, or it would make me so sad if you don’t do this
thing. And we can play with that kid’s emotions to try to control what they
do rather than managing our own emotions and letting them choose. Okay, we
can influence, but manipulating is rather, I don’t want to feel this way
child. And so as long as you do this, then I get to feel better, so I’m
going to manipulate you into doing it this way so I get to feel this way.

(06:12):

Often covert manipulation is disguised as care. It’s creepy, it’s sneaky,
it’s very slippery, okay? I just want what’s best for you. I just want
what’s best for you. This is what I think is best for you. And do you want
to x, Y, and z consequence, right? Don’t you want something better? You can
use guilt, pressure, withholding flattery, love bombing, all kinds of
things to steer the outcome. It can look very sneaky. It can look like I’m
going to treat you like dirt most of the time, and then every once in a
while I’m going to make a really grand gesture. And then when you try to
point out the things that I do that are rotten, it’s like, gosh, it’s never
going to be enough for you. Look, I just did this thing. It’s intended to
throw you off the scent. Okay? Manipulation, and especially in abuse
situations, it’s like if we get too close to the thing they don’t want to
deal with, they can throw you off the scent by manipulating you and making
you wrong, making you the problem and steering the outcome.

(07:18):

Influence, influence comes from inner strength, clarity, and courage.
Influence seeks the betterment of everyone involved. Even if it risks
discomfort. This looks like asking everyone to rise, asking everyone to
maybe let’s do things different than we were. It’s saying, heck, I might
have to feel something really difficult too, but I really think it’s for
the better of everybody, right? Influence is rooted in truth, transparency
and personal responsibility. I’m being honest first with myself, first with
myself, and I’m being responsible for the outcome that I want, but I can
handle it if I don’t get what I want, I can first control myself and then
use that self-control, that self-emotional regulation, all of those things
to then use my voice to speak up for what I think is best and honestly what
I want, but I can handle it if I don’t get what I want.

(08:17):

It offers a clear invitation rather than forcing an outcome, right?
Manipulation takes power from others, influence radiates power from the
person speaking and often invites others into their own personal power,
okay? It’s not I hold the power here and you don’t influence is we all have
power and I’m inviting you to step into it, alright? Manipulation in the
context of infidelity sometimes before infidelity occurs, rather, I will
say sometimes before it is found out, the person who is being unfaithful
could be using manipulation to try to cover their tracks, to try to get the
other person off their scent, to try to make them think that what they are
seeing is not what they’re seeing gaslighting at its finest to try to take
the focus off of them. For my clients who were betrayed, trying to manage
your partner’s behavior so they don’t stray can be part of this monitoring,
people pleasing to where you’re not even telling the truth about what you
want or who you are or what you like, what you don’t like.

(09:33):

You’re maybe staying silent to avoid conflict. How is that manipulative?
Sometimes that’s manipulative because it’s like if I don’t rock the boat,
if I don’t do anything contrary, he doesn’t have anything, any lakes to
stand on or this can go either way and I can push for what I want. Staying
inauthentic to keep the peace or to stay chosen. This can be a form of
manipulation by using that silence and using that peace and not being real
to keep things a certain way or to push things a certain way without
pushing themselves internally towards something better. It’s like I don’t
know how to manage this within myself, so I’m going to ask you, I’m going
to manipulate you to not do this thing or to do this thing so that I don’t
have to deal with confronting these things within myself. Sometimes we can
use sex or affection or withdrawal as tools for compliance.

(10:30):

I’m just going to pull away from you until you come begging, until you come
crawling, until you are asking me what’s wrong, and then maybe I’ll tell
you, maybe I won’t, right? But I got you right where I want you. That’s
manipulative. Using sex as a means to hold something over you. Like now I
gave in and I did this and so now you owe me or affection, now you owe me.
And this goes both ways. It goes both ways sometimes. Like I said, those
grand gestures of, look how amazing they’ll look at all, look at everything
I do for you. Look at all the things I do for you, or look how well I take
care of everything. And on both sides, sometimes it’s I’m such a great
provider, I’ve given you this life. I’ve given you everything you have. How
can you possibly complain?

(11:16):

And this can be used as a means to keep the other one silent and to
actually make them maybe feel guilty or look at all that I do. I take care
of the home. I take care of the kids. I do all of these things and how can
you say that you want more? How dare you. How could you say you want more?
Look what I’m already doing. I’ll never be enough. After infidelity occurs,
manipulation can look like wanting to hurt them. They hurt you even if it’s
unconscious, punishing behaviors. It can look like the person who did the
betraying using words. When’s it going to be enough? I’ve told you
everything. Why do you need more? I’m getting really tired of this. Why do
you keep bringing this up? Why is this manipulative? And I want to make a
point here, okay? Sometimes it’s honest, sometimes it is like, I’m actually
really tired of this.

(12:09):

I’m really, really tired. The question is, is this used in a way to shut
the other person down or is this used in a way to communicate and say, this
is hard and I want to know what do you need and what can we do together?
And I am really tired. Those things are different. After infidelity, the
one who was betrayed often tries to control the show of how the other
person shows remorse of how fast they change or they use shaming to feel
powerful again. They feel so powerless. This thing happened right under my
nose and I feel powerless and I am going to grab that power right back and
this is how I’m going to do it. I’m going to shame you. I’m going to
destroy you. I’m going to let you see what an SOB you are, and we can use
that in a manipulative way to try to extract some kind of emotional
response out of the other person.

(13:04):

If I’m make them hurt enough, then they’ll understand how much they hurt
me. If I show ’em how much I hurt, then they’ll never do it again type
thing. Or if you really loved me, you what X, Y, and z disguised as a plea
for safety, but rooted in fear. Okay? Now this can be a little bit tricky
because sometimes we do ask for things because we are afraid and we are
asking them to please help us with our fear. That’s not a problem. Like,
hey, for right now, if you could take a break from this thing that you do
that for right now, for today feels really overwhelming to me. Can you do
that? Can you help me out there as I’m working on these things? Okay? What
I’m saying here is where we are manipulating their emotions by if you loved
me, we’re assuming that there’s only one way to show that you love, right?

(13:59):

We’re kind of pulling at that person’s heartstrings of, oh my gosh, if I
don’t, then they’re not going to think that I love them so I have to do it.
Or we are setting ourselves up for a recipe of massive resentment because
this person is trying to show you that they’re sorry, but it’s very much
prescribed like a prescription of what they have to do, and they sometimes
don’t feel like there’s room for them to show up organically of real repair
in a way that feels true to them. Influence, on the other hand, in the
context of infidelity before infidelity, it looks like living in alignment
with your values and communicating them clearly. I will say that in most
cases, I’ll be blunt here, most of my couples and my individuals don’t have
a lot of this going on. There’s a lot of fear that one person might be
trying to get something moving.

(14:56):

They might be trying to ask and say, Hey, we’re in trouble. Can we get
help? But sometimes the way they’re asking is very fear-based and pushes
the other person away or makes them feel backed against a wall. Sometimes
we’re not willing to say anything at all and go silent and stonewall and
there’s not a lot of it, but if there was, it was there, it would look like
one person saying, I’m not going to capitulate to the things that you’re
doing and I’m going to stand in my values and communicate them, and then
the other person gets their choice of what they’re going to do. Living in
your own influence looks like being willing to be disliked, misunderstood,
or even left rather than abandoning yourself. It means leading by example.
How you handle hard conversations, how you handle boundaries, how you
handle disconnection. How do I come back into the conversation or do I wait
for them every time?

(15:52):

How do I try to create a bridge where we are communicating, right? This is
influence and it can sometimes look like manipulation because sometimes
strong language is used. Sometimes we are making really strong requests.
This is what I want, this is what I want. These are the things that I need.
I want to give this a go. I want to give this a go, but these are the
things that I need and this is what I want. And you get to choose who you
want to be and what you want. But I also get to choose what I’m willing to
continue to stay in. That can sound like manipulation, but when it’s coming
from somebody’s first internal leadership of their internal integrity of
this is what I stand for and I will let this all burn to the ground in the
name of standing up for myself and then letting the other person slash and
kick and scream and maybe not like it, and they’re really flailing and the
person with that influence, that person with that inner strength is willing
to stand there and not cave right?

(16:55):

As sometimes the manipulation from the other party kicks up and gets more
intense influence becomes a leadership quality. Like I am willing to go
first and I’m okay with going first, right? It means modeling, emotional
resilience, self-respect and growth saying this is who I am and I trust you
to decide who you want to be and response. Whereas control is more, this is
who I need you to be so I can be okay. It’s reverse, right? It’s the
opposite order. One is internally led from strength. One is more externally
led. If I need the outside things to look this way for my internal world to
be okay, how to tell which one you’re in. I’ve got some questions here for
you. Ask yourself these questions. Am I trying to create a specific outcome
or am I inviting one? What’s the difference? If we absolutely need
something to go a certain way for us to feel, okay, we’re likely going to
pull out all kinds of manipulative tactics to make sure that we get this
outcome when we can grow some security around, no matter what, I will be
okay no matter what.

(18:05):

I will figure this out. We don’t need it to go a certain way for us to be
okay. We know that we can handle it. Another question. Am I willing for
this not to go my way? Am I willing? Is my action rooted in fear or
grounded in self-leadership, grounded in my own personal integrity? Am I
being honest or strategic? Ouch, right? Am I being honest or strategic? Is
this me telling the truth and letting it lie? Or am I using this as a way
to get something right? Am I using this as a way to push buttons that I
know I know how to push? Okay, so if you have been listening thus far and
notice areas where you maybe lean on the side of manipulation, this is some
of the things that you can do to shift it. Stop managing the impression
that you’re making.

(18:58):

Stop managing what the other person’s thinking of you or how they are
relating to you, what their reaction is to you, and start expressing from
truth. Start expressing from truth like this is what it is, and I’m not
here to manage your response to it. We can feel a lot of discomfort when we
are watching them try to pull you back into the pattern that you are in and
you keep yourself grounded and going, Nope, I’m not playing that game
anymore. Another shift is to stop hinting and to start naming. We’re not
tiptoeing around anymore. We’re not throwing in little hints and hoping
that they get it. We are naming it. We are saying it out loud. Stop
expecting and start requesting. We’re not going to live in silence and hope
we get what we want. We’re going to say what we want and ask for what we
want.

(19:52):

That is a kindness. Stop using emotion as a weapon. Alright, I feel this
way and it’s your fault that I feel this way. Instead, this is how I feel
and this is what’s going on for me. It’s information not a weapon, it’s
information. It’s what’s going on for us and we are using it as information
to communicate, not to extract. Learn how to sit with the discomfort of not
being in control. Hard stuff, right? Hard stuff to loosen up our grip of
being in control. Okay, so I know that I barely touched on this. I could
spend hours going into this. I could go into all kinds of different
stories, all kinds of examples, but for today’s purposes, this is surface
level. I want you to listen and check in with yourself and go, where do I
manipulate and where is my influence and what’s the difference for me?

(20:49):

And the sooner that you can recognize for yourself which way you lean and
what you want to do about it, the better it’ll be. And honestly, the thing
that’s kind of wild is that we actually up our chances of getting what we
want when we shift away from control and into influence. Okay? Influence is
powerful. Influence says I care about all of us. I care about the
collective, I care about you, I care about me. I want the best thing for all
of us here. And we’re really standing up for it. We’re really putting our
stake in the ground saying, this is what I stand for and I really hope you
come with me. Manipulation is like we see that stake in the ground and
we’re trying to drag their butts there when sometimes they don’t want to be
dragged. So notice in yourself, where are you lean.

(21:41):

We’re not going to judge it, okay? We all sometimes manipulate. We all do.
And I’m inviting you into your influence, okay? I’m going to use my
influence to invite you into yours. Alright? You got things to say. You
have things that you want, you have things that you need. And how can you
shift from this fear-based trying to extract it from somebody so you can
feel better too, this is what I am standing up for and this is what
eventually I want to have in a relationship and I am willing to go first.
Alright? Alright. Final thoughts here and I’m going to wrap it up.
Manipulation is about avoiding pain. Influence is about growing through it.
Okay? Manipulation. We don’t want to go there. We don’t want to feel it, we
don’t want to deal with it, we don’t want to face it. So I’m going to make
it your problem.

(22:37):

I’m going to twist you up in knots so that I don’t have to face it.
Influence is saying, bring it on, saying, I don’t love pain, but we’re
saying I’m willing to go through the pain in order to have this thing that I
know is better for me and likely better for the collective influence is what
creates trust over time. Not because of control, but because of truth and
consistency. We can see that we are with somebody who is willing to say the
hard things, what? Willing to share how they actually feel, willing to put
it out there, willing to risk that you might not be happy with what they
say and they say it anyway. That is huge, that this is where relationships
repair trust, and this is where we really can influence how this thing
goes. So I want you to ask yourself, where have I been trying to control
outcomes out of fear and what might shift if I led with influence instead?

(23:36):

All right? That’s what I got for you today, my friends. Thank you so much
for being here. I would be so grateful if you would take time to go leave a
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