I’m Andrea Giles, and you’re listening to the Heal from Infidelity podcast, episode number 244, Ask Andrea – Finding Clarity in the Middle of the Mess.

Infidelity changes everything. Who you thought you were, what you thought your life was. From here, you can keep circling the pain or rebuild something real. This is a space for men and women navigating infidelity. Whether you’ve been betrayed or you’re the one who broke trust, I’m Andrea Giles, master certified relationship coach.

I know what’s possible on the other side. When you’re willing to tell the truth all the way out, you’re in the right place. Let’s begin. Hello, my beautiful listeners.

I’m so delighted to have you here with me today. I’ve mentioned in previous episodes that I’m going to be doing a Q and A type format where you send in questions and I answer them, and that’s what this episode is going to be about today. So this is our first time doing this, and I’m very much looking forward to it. So here we go.

Several of you sent in questions, and I’m going to be going through and answering them today. So stick around. And hopefully you listening to these will help you to see that others have the same questions you do that you could have sent in that same question. Right.

And I want you to know that this is the case most of the time is that we feel very alone. We feel very much like nobody else understands. And then you hear other people’s experience and go, oh, my goodness, I am the same. I could have asked that.

So I hope you find some comfort in that. But most of all, I hope that you find some things in here that will actually help you. Okay.

All right, so question number one. Here we go. How do I, the betrayed, move forward when he projects things he did to me as if he truly believes I did them? Um, I’m stuck.

His resentment is leaking out sideways into the way he speaks and acts towards me. He has accused me of doing things he did when he was angry, things he said to me, breaking things, deleting emails and messages. I have shown it to him, and he has acknowledged it, saying he hadn’t realized he was doing it. How else do I address this? Does he really not remember doing these things?

Okay, so here’s what this is about. First of all, you who sent this in, you are dealing likely with somebody who is really buried in a ton of shame. And it can be so disorienting to you because your sense of reality has already been shifted. And then when you hear things like this, it is even more disorienting, deeply disorienting, and it can shake your sense of reality even more.

Like, first there’s the infidelity, and then you’re going to tell me all these things when I know that that’s not accurate. So what do I do with this? Okay.

So often, often for the person who did the betraying, it is so challenging and painful for them to sit in their own shame of knowing the things that they did that sometimes people will do almost anything to get it off of them. And this is projection. It’s, I’m going to push this off of me, push it on you, because it’s more bearable to think that you have wronged me than to think that I have done this to you. Okay?

It is psychologically easier to believe you are hiding things, you are angry, you are destructive than to fully confront within yourself, I lied, I betrayed, I caused serious harm. And so rather than confronting self, it’s easier to deflect, to look over here, look the other way. But obviously it doesn’t help anything and can be very confusing.

So does he really not remember? Maybe. Guess why? Because memory is not just about facts.

Memory is actually influenced by emotional avoidance. For example, people can convince themselves so much of their own lies that they truly believe them. That they truly believe them. Because facing the music, really seeing the truth can be so scary that they convince themselves of the lie rather than really seeing the truth in it because of what they would make that mean about themselves.

People often minimize or compartmentalize behavior that they are ashamed of.

But this is really important. Whether he remembers perfectly is not the most important issue. The most important issue here is does he take responsibility?

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Does he show curiosity? Does he work to change the pattern? You can show him. You can say, here, here’s the facts, here’s the data.

And if he’s still pushing it off on you, that is information for you. Okay?

So this is really, really important. I want you to notice the pattern without getting pulled into defending yourself. That’s just playing the game. That’s just getting in there.

And sometimes that defending yourself is a way of sort of inadvertently admitting truth, which sounds kind of off. But if we really have nothing to defend, we don’t need to defend ourselves. If we know that something is not true, we can just let it not be true and know that within ourselves without engaging in a way that gets emotions high that says sometimes it can give a message of there might be a little bit of truth to this when there really might not queso projection if somebody else is projecting, Your invitation is to step out of the courtroom. Get out.

Okay. Step away. You do not have to prove your innocence because you’re not on trial. Actually, you are not the one on trial here.

You don’t need to prove anything. And this is how you do this. With boundaries. You use boundaries.

I’m not willing to defend myself against accusations that reflect your own behavior. When you’re ready to have an honest conversation, I am here.

So the issue here is not whether he remembers every detail. Okay. It’s whether he is willing to tell the truth about what he’s doing. Now, is he doing that, or is he going to keep trying to drag you in to that courtroom to get the attention off of himself? These are things you really need to know.

So the next step is getting out of that courtroom by setting a boundary and then learning what happens next. What does he do from there? Can he become more honest? Can he take more responsibility?

Does he dig in even more trying to get you on the defense? Don’t take the bait. You will only know what he truly is willing to acknowledge and accept responsibility for. When you stop taking the bait, set those boundaries.

You know it’s true. You know it’s real. Stick to it. Okay.

All right. Question number two. This was a really good one. This is a really good one.

I married my husband when I was 19, and I believed we had a wonderful marriage. But over the years, I uncovered repeated betrayals, including pornography, emotional affairs, sexual affairs, and a long term emotional attachment to another woman that secretly continued for nearly two decades. After multiple d days and years of trying to move forward, I recently discovered he was still in contact with her. And it shattered me all over again.

Now at 62, I feel I’m grieving both the betrayal and the years I spent trying to make the marriage work without fully knowing the truth. We’re both now in therapy and trying to heal individually while deciding whether reconciliation is possible. But I’m struggling with anger, disbelief, and figuring out how to move forward after so many years of broken trust. How do I begin to heal and decide whether reconciliation is possible after decades, uh, of betrayal, secrecy, and broken trust?

Okay, I want to say, first of all, let’s honor the enormity of this grief. You have shown up again and again and again, willing, open, and you are not only grieving here what your husband did, but you are grieving the marriage you believed you had, the years you spent trying, and the younger version of yourself who did not Know, and the time that cannot be recovered. And all of that can lead to deeply profound grief. Right?

Deeply profound.

So, first of all, I want to say you don’t have to rush the decision right now. Your only job is to stabilize and grieve. That’s your only job, not to decide. So you are, in this time gathering data.

This is part of what will stabilize you, what is actually real. Now, is he being fully honest now? Is he genuinely remorseful? Uh, is he doing sustained work?

Is he becoming someone you can trust? Can I see that trust being built in lots of different places, not just around this issue?

The most important thing right now is the stabilizing and restoring your relationship with you. Your own sense of self is so disoriented from all of the years, of all of the deceit, that right now, giving yourself extra care

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to know yourself, to hear yourself, is going to be really, really important.

And I want you to hear me when I say, please anchor all of this in this knowing you are not too old and it is not too late to build the most truthful chapter of your life. The most honest chapter of your life. The one where you know the world that you’re living in with your eyes wide open. No illusions, m.

No delusions. And this is what you are being invited into right now. It is not too late. Okay?

And give yourself time. Allow yourself to feel that grief. Allow yourself time to just settle in and feel it for as long as it needs to be there. And don’t take any pressure from anyone, especially your spouse, to hurry and get through it. And hurry and make a decision.

This is your chance to give yourself everything you’ve got. To your own care, to your own love, to your own nurturing. Knowing that that is the only way through. There is no shortcut.

Okay? That is the only way through is giving yourself that time. Okay. Okay.

Next question here. I, uh, am Many months post Discovery Day. I learned about multiple affairs, including a long term one and other patterns of lying and risk taking. We have both worked hard to recover and we both want to stay together.

And my partner is doing everything recommended. Radical honesty, transparency, remorse, and more. We have made a lot of progress and I’m very positive about the present and future. But I am still hurt, angry, resentful and confused about the past and finding it difficult to move on.

I still ruminate about the affairs and what my partner was thinking, doing and experiencing while in them. I don’t understand what it all means for how my partner felt about me during those periods. And I’m struggling With why I feel it’s so important to have a deeper grasp of this. How do I get to a place where I can acknowledge that this happened without being so hurt and resentful?

Okay, first of all, to you, who sent this in, I want you to know that my next episode is actually going to be all about this issue, because I’ve been hearing this, uh, across the board from tons of people. And so I’m going to do a full episode about it. But I, uh, want to go ahead and answer you here.

Progress in the present does not erase pain from the past. Your mind returns to the betrayal because it’s still trying to make meaning.

And another huge piece here is not only are you trying to make meaning, but you’re trying to see if there is a shared meaning with your spouse. Are there things that you can both agree on of what it meant to him that you can believe, that you can swallow, that you don’t feel are just poor excuses, right?

Meaning matters, and here’s why. Because betrayal shatters assumptions about love, about reality, about safety, about identity. And your mind wants to understand what happened so it can regain coherence. So it can regain an understanding that your brain can get behind.

Right? That it can go, okay, when I get confused, I have something to anchor back into.

Healing involves moving from I need to understand everything to I understand enough now to move forward. I may not understand every single thing, but I have enough of a grasp. I feel like there’s enough truth that has been brought to the surface here that I can move forward. All right.

Healing is not perfect understanding. It’s reaching a point where the past no longer runs your life. And part of your work here is digging in again and again to what have I made this mean? What do I make it mean?

And what did he make it mean? What was he believing about himself? What was he believing about what was going on? How was he doing this and compartmentalizing that while coming home and being with me?

Right. And understanding the meaning that you are attaching it to, the, uh, meaning he is attaching it to and seeing if there is something that you can both get to that allows you to move forward.

Okay, now, again, as I stated, the entire next episode is going to be about this topic. So hang in. It’ll be much, much more. And hopefully that will help you even more.

But this is a little preview to that. Okay? Okay, next question. Truth.

Action versus comfort. Patterns versus growth. I’ve seen the patterns. I’ve described and explained the patterns and how it creates disconnect and resentment.

Yet the pattern continues. Now I’m being blamed for expecting too much, for not answering the question of what I want him to do right now, again, and should I accept what he is giving without wanting reassurance? I should know he is

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remorseful without having to hear it. I should know he cares because he is still here. Am I asking too much?

I will say without any question, no, dear listener, you are not asking too much. Okay? Usually this question comes by someone who has spent years asking for too little. You’re not used to asking to take up space. You’re not used to taking up space, all right?

Needs such as reassurance, accountability, empathy, verbal acknowledgment are most definitely not excessive. They are reasonable, especially after infidelity.

Your needs, though, may exceed your partner’s current capacity. And this is very important. And sometimes what we do is when we go, they can’t, like, they can’t hear me. They can’t give that reassurance.

We make justifications for that overriding what our actual needs are. And this I do not recommend.

Don’t make your needs wrong. Get the information. Maybe he doesn’t have the capacity to give me the things that I need, but that doesn’t make me wrong for needing them. It doesn’t make me wrong for wanting them. Okay?

So a better question that I want you to ask rather than is it too much? Is if this is all he is willing or able to offer, is it enough for me? Is it enough? Please sit with this honestly.

And if the answer is no, the following question is, then what do I want to do with this? How have I approached this? How have I honestly said, you’re not meeting me and what I need? And I’m now trying to understand what I’m going to do with this.

If I’m going to continue pretending like it’s enough for me or if I need to maybe think of some other things because this is not working for me.

And you will get more information. You will learn if he doubles down. I’m making you wrong. I’m making you feel like you’re asking for too much or like you’re too much, or if he will dig in deeper to look at himself, to self confront and go, yeah, it’s not cutting it for her.

What do I need to do to meet m her in a way that is good for her and ultimately in a way that’s good for me. And if that doesn’t happen, that’s also data for you that you get to decide what to do with Right.

Okay, next question here. I recently discovered my spouse is a sex addict and that sexual and emotional infidelity has been present in all 20 years of our marriage. Currently I am struggling with stay or go. We live 1800 miles for my family, for his career.

One of my sons will be going into senior year, the other will be a rising freshman. They both are thriving here and when I mention this moving, they don’t want to. They don’t know anything about the betrayal. They know that there are issues and dad is sleeping in the basement.

We are working individually and some together to see what happens. A lot of times I lean towards exiting the relationship. But fear plays a huge role in deciding either way. I often think just stick it out a few more years until the kids get done or even if we split, staying here for the kids to finish school even though I have no family support.

Then there are times I am hopeful my spouse and I can rebuild. But the damage is so deep. Anyways, is it okay to put your kids needs first at least for a bit?

Great, great question here. Okay. And here’s what I’ll say. Yes, it is okay.

But not at the expense of abandoning yourself indefinitely. Okay?

Children deeply matter and so do you. So what it comes down to for me is around choosing based on reasons that you like, reasons that you like. And if you like your reasons, that’s good enough for you. And if you don’t, if your own reasons for this leave you feeling uneasy, then this is something that you need to know, right? This is something to pay attention to.

You mentioned fear in that fear, the fear that can grip you. Right?

All right, so here’s a little meter to look at. Is this healthy versus fear based? Healthy would look like taking time, preserving stability, making thoughtful decisions. Okay.

Fear based is using the kids to avoid truth, staying indefinitely in limbo.

Temporary decisions are okay. Just please make sure that for the kids is a conscious choice and not a hiding place. Okay?

This can look like holding the discomfort that the marriage is not anywhere near where I want it to be. And right now I’m choosing to stay here

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to keep the stability until I feel more clear for myself. Okay?

Choosing before you have clarity. I don’t recommend you can decide to stay until you have more and more clarity, until you’re not feeling as raw, until you have more data, until this decision becomes so clear that you’re willing to feel whatever feelings you have to feel.

For example, the grief of telling your children that you’re moving back by family because you have reasons that you can get behind it can strengthen you to be able to do the things that need to happen with the strength that’s behind it. It’s not coming from fear and it’s not coming from hurt. It’s not coming from anger. It’s coming from clarity or the opposite.

I have enough information to know that I can take really good care of myself here in this place, regardless of what he does or because I see enough to see that it’s okay and safe for me to be here with him. Okay. So I hope that this is helpful again. The next episode that I’m going to do is likely going to be helpful to all of these questions.

It’s going to help with all of the questions, but for sure it’s going to help with the ones about what do I do in the meantime? If I don’t know what he’s up to or if he’s going to change or I already know that this might be the best it can be. What do I do from here? Right.

So tune in next time. But I have one more that I’m going to talk about.

Somebody asked about if body, mind conflict can cause depression. And my answer to this is absolutely.

When your body and your mind are in conflict, it is exhausting. Exhausting. And I want to say that there are more and more and more studies that are out that you can find anywhere about the correlation between body and mind. You cannot cut off one and not feel it in the other. It is impossible. Okay.

You might find yourself in your mind saying, oh, look, everything’s better. Or, I should be over this. Oh, I should feel grateful. Look what he’s doing.

I should feel grateful. But your body may be saying, I still don’t feel safe. Something is not settled in me. I’m not at peace.

And that internal tug of war can manifest as sadness, as numbness, as anxiety, and most definitely as depression.

Because it’s painting this version of you that feels very trapped. Right. Depression is a feeling of, I’m stuck, I’m trapped, and there’s nothing I could do about it. So what do you do with this?

The mind often prioritizes logic. The body prioritizes truth. And when they disagree, many people override the body. That’s right.

They override the body first. Because often the body is what asks more of you. Often the body is what demands, commands, a bigger risk, being willing to do something that you don’t want to do.

And over time, that creates disconnection from yourself. And emotional heaviness and depression can sometimes be what happens when you have been arguing with your own knowing for too long.

Okay, so check in with that, uh, where am I arguing with something that I know and am I willing to just tune in to my body and hear what it has to say?

All right, beautiful listeners, thank you so much for the questions that you sent in. I hope you found it helpful today. Please feel free to send in more for next month’s episode and you can find the link in the show notes. Send in your questions and we will see you next time. Take care.

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